Curse

akh · Nov 06, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Why can't we just put different insignias in one set and then switch them in some kind of menu ? Insignia system in its current form isn't bad but it doesn't simplify anything.

Snowman · Nov 06, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

I like the change, but then I like any change

In this case it simply provides a new level of depth to Guildwars, something else to do - which is good!

I am in agreement about the complains however, especially that the insignia's arnt "swappable" as advertised.

Abnaxus · Nov 06, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

exactly.
if anything, you guys should look at this type of thing as an opportunity. by plannign ahead of time, and investing prior to the new chapters release, not only will you be prepared for whatever awaits you, but it can be a profitable investment.
stocking up in low level materials and runes before a new chapter comes out, means you can play the part of a ticket scalper at a sold out sports game...you can charge whatever the hell you want (more or less) because theres bound to be someone who lacked the foresight to stock up, but doesnt lack the funds to make you a profit.
instead of whining about economic cycles, use them to your advantage.

As usual, I disagree with Akh's point of view.

This is a point of view of a trader, someone who likes playing the trade minigame inside the main game, and can remain acceptable provided that he/she doesn't want to give lessons on how to approach the game, or say that other players should adapt to his/own system to play the game.

To clarify where I speak from, I have 8 playing chars (soon I will have 10) 5x15k armors, sup. vigor on all of them, all valuable greens for each class, 1.2M in storage (and probably 1M spent in 1337 gold weaps) and 5 mule chars to store all kind of common/rare crafting materials, collectibles, dyes, weapons and runes.

But I don't store materials and other to make speculations on new players, I store for my personal usage, because the day I decide to get a new armor and need 50 steel I don't want to discover that they are 1k each at trader. And when a friend needs material for his/her armor, I normally give him/her for free, or if I feel that it could seem a manifestation of superiority to give something for free, I ask him/her the price I would sell to the merchant.

That said, I think that the insignia system is flawed.
Consider the situation of a new player, for who the words "speculation" is a nonsense: if NF is the 1st chapter he/she buys, he/she will have a huge additional difficulty in getting a basic decent armor, differently from what happened in GWP and GWF.

Before NF, insignias (= inherent bonuses) were crafted, thus available in unlimited number and not subject to market speculations. Now they are "luxury items", human traders exploit the need of those items camping the trader, hoarding and abusing of new players.

If the trend continues, in GW4 we'll not have armor crafters, but armor traders. Old players will camp the traders, buy all armors they can and speculate on the newbies, who will have to hope they can drop pieces of armors from monsters or play through the game with their tutorial armors.

Though deprecable, I think that abusers are legitimate, they behave the way the game allows them to behave.
A.net has designed the game in a way that rewards and encourages such kind of abuses, and so players are in their right to commit every kind of possible abuse allowed by the game.
Let's call things with their name, hoarding is not "making profitable and wise investment" as Akh says, is ABUSE. Point.

What I criticize in the game design is essentially this:

In PvP, all basic equipment are available for fixed "gold" (that in PvP are Balth points) and provided that you have the right amount of points you can get all the armors, runes, upgrades and gear needed. You don't have shortage of items because other players have hoarded them.

In PvE, most of the BASIC, STANDARD equipment are subject to market speculations, now with NF even the basic armors, previously available from crafters, have become market items.

GW is becoming more and more an imitation of all other WoW-ish style grind games, and maybe because the developers listen to players who want GW to be a WoW without the monthly fee that their dad is not willing to pay for.

Marc0 · Nov 06, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

You guys are forgetting you don't HAVE to buy new armor unless the only chapter you have is NF...or if you roll all new characters there. Most people will roll 1 or 2 new toons there & keep the existing ones they have. My heros do fine without insignias...and when I loot a random rune, I just pop it on the hero I see fit if it's not one I'll use. Keep playing & you will gradually get more items that you would normally just sell to the merchant that will work well for your heros....also they are already better than henchies since you can control builds, secondary, weapons, off hands....be happy you CAN customize the armor they wear.

On the other hand, I do agree that since these mods were included in the previous system, they should still be easily attained. Make a trader with set prices for all insignias & then reduce the cost of the armor by however much an insignia costs. *edit* A trader that has unlimited supply, not one that is based on what is sold to him! *

Example:
A Gladiator Canthan chest in Kaineng would cost 1.5k to craft....plus materials. If came with +3 energy. The Knights also cost the same & had -3 damage.....so price insignias super cheap, or charge 500g for them but reduce the cost of the armor parts in NF by 500g each to compensate.

But in practice, the armor in the command post is 1k, so that is nice, since you can get max armor for 1k....but there is no static vendor for the insignias. As long as people can get max armor cheap with the stats they need, the higher priced armor doesn't matter, that is a luxury.

Imaginos · Nov 06, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by akh

Why can't we just put different insignias in one set and then switch them in some kind of menu ? Insignia system in its current form isn't bad but it doesn't simplify anything.

I'd like to see that myself. Apply an insigina to a piece of armor and it's "Saved" on the armor. Apply another and it too is saved, then you can use a drop down list for that armor part to choose what insignia you want active.

Marc0 · Nov 06, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

I'd like to see that myself. Apply an insigina to a piece of armor and it's "Saved" on the armor. Apply another and it too is saved, then you can use a drop down list for that armor part to choose what insignia you want active.

I also agree with this...especially since they haven't done crap about our shrinking storage space....imagine now that we can have differen weapon/gear setups on heros how it will shrink storage even more

/signed for the drop down menu for armor! (also /signed for added storage!)

Abnaxus · Nov 06, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc0

On the other hand, I do agree that since these mods were included in the previous system, they should still be easily attained. Make a trader with set prices for all insignias & then reduce the cost of the armor by however much an insignia costs. *edit* A trader that has unlimited supply, not one that is based on what is sold to him! *

Example:
A Gladiator Canthan chest in Kaineng would cost 1.5k to craft....plus materials. If came with +3 energy. The Knights also cost the same & had -3 damage.....so price insignias super cheap, or charge 500g for them but reduce the cost of the armor parts in NF by 500g each to compensate.

But in practice, the armor in the command post is 1k, so that is nice, since you can get max armor for 1k....but there is no static vendor for the insignias. As long as people can get max armor cheap with the stats they need, the higher priced armor doesn't matter, that is a luxury.

The problem is not the price, but the availability.

Basically, all what appears in the PvP creation screen should be available from crafters, and when I say "available" I don't mean "cheap", but craftable for a fixed price, like in PvP you can get all basic gear for fixed "PvP prices".

So, let's say that all insignias would cost 1.5k, so every piece of the basic NF armor would cost 2.5k (1k more than Kaineng of Droknar). That would be much better then the current system with it's unperdictable prices, even for the basic equipment.

Marc0 · Nov 06, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I don't think you understood my post.....I don't think the new armor should cost more than 1.5k each for basic max armor WITH mods. I did edit & say a trader with unlimited supplies, that covers availability. The way i'm suggesting it work would come out with the armor costing the same as the GWF & GWP max 1.5k armors, after you have put insignias on them.

Sable Phoenix · Nov 06, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oh a GW forum

Ok, enough sarcasm and dissent. Here is what needs to be done if pve wants to see any benefiet from this system.

1) Update armor to have a 0% chance of breaking when salvaging components from it. It's customized, you paid for it, it doesn't effect the economy, there is no valid arguement against this. Period.

2) Update system to encompass old armor from C1 and C2. Find a way to make it so you have to buy nightfall to do it if thats so important to anet, I don't care... but it's simply ridiculous to split the game in half like this where there are completely different systems of armor depending upon when you bought the game. We need some form of consistancy here.

3) Creat a crafter that will create any insignia compitable with your profession, AT A FIXED PRICE. Again, there is no valid arguement against this. These bonuses used to be FREE, don't give me your crack-pot economic theories about how the game will explode.

Either fix the system, or scap it. It was fine in faction, but if you want to try and improve upon perfection, try not to actually make things worse, ok Anet?

Every single one of your points here is exactly correct and there is no reason why they shold not all be implemented immediately.

Oh a GW forum · Nov 07, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyunsai

Minor vigor is around 2K now, no?

Yea, but I can deal paying 2k per hero. What I can't deal with is paying 2k X 5 +2k per hero.

eudas · Nov 07, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

To the OP:

IMO, Insignias is a great idea from a design standpoint.

And, in the end, from a playing standpoint, it also works well -- you craft only as much armor as you need, with the look you need, and you can change it later if you desire. It's all about flexibility and versatility.

I haven't had any problems with it; your points were written relatively eloquently but it's only been one week after nightfall release. I expect that insignia prices will fall as time goes on, and replacing a 1k insignia is still better than re-crafting a 15k piece of armor when you want to switch.

So, sorry, but I disagree -- insignias are a good thing.

The only thing I personally object to is that ch1/ch2 armor can't use insignias -- this makes it look like insignias and inscriptions are being used only as a selling point to sell units of ch3.

To ANET: I really hope you add an "Armor Conversion" tab to the Armorsmith NPC's so that people can convert their older, existing armors (for a small fee, say 150gp) to be able to use inscriptions. Same goes for Weapons.

cheers,
eudas